Written Agreement with Bob Schulz?
Devvy Kidd
March 27, 2002
As regular readers know, Bob Schulz' 'Truth in Taxation' hearings were to be attended by selected legal representatives from the Department of Justice and IRS. A few short weeks before the hearings were to be held in Washington, DC (Feb. 27, 28, 2002 ), Bob found out that a lot of lying and shenanigans were going on. The end result was the government backed out. These hearings were brokered by Congressman Roscoe Bartlett and a written agreement was reached on July 20, 2001. These facts cannot be disputed.
If you are a new reader to this site or missed Bob's letter to Congressman Bartlett, please go to:
https://www.givemeliberty.org/bartlettresponse/LtrLWright01-31-02.html
I received an e-mail from someone who either works for the government or is someone so in a state of denial about the lying this government has done for almost 90 years regarding the income tax, it was almost pathetic. Almost.
This e-mailer made a number of accusations which
I attempted to address:
| Subject: You're the Liar
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 From: RMc <[email protected]> To: Devvy Kidd <[email protected]> Since you profess to be the source of all truth and the government only tells lies, please be so kind as to post the written agreements between We The People and Ashcroft and Rossotti. You can't. They don't exist. You lied. How about apologizing for your lies before you point the finger at anyone else. Robert McDowell |
To which I responded:
| Subject: You're the Liar
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 0800 From: devvy kidd <[email protected]> To: RMc <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected] References: 1 Dear Mr. McDowell: I will not open this response by calling you a liar. May I suggest that you contact Bob Schulz directly about obtaining a copy of the signed agreement? It does exist, Mr. McDowell. You might also view this letter from Congressman Bartlett on Bob's site: http://www.bostonteaparty2.org/bartlett/bartlett.html I realize that it is difficult for Americans to realize they have been lied to by their government or favorite politicians. However, that is exactly what is going on and has been going on for decades. The proof does not lie, sir. There is no finger pointing going on - it's called holding your elected public servants accountable for their actions. In this case, neither Rossotti nor Ashcroft are elected and their boss, President Bush, seems to have no problem with their dishonest actions. I would also suggest to you that despite your anger, you'll get more cooperation from people you write to if you don't begin your request by calling the person a liar. And, finally, I do not profess to be the source of all truth and have said this many times in many pieces on my web site. The research that millions of us have been doing is not to prove we know everything, but to get to the truth to correct the wrongs. Are we a nation of laws or lies? We can't be both. Devvy Kidd |
The next volley:
| Subject: Re: Help yourself
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 From: RMc <[email protected]> To: devvy kidd <[email protected]> You guys are amazing. You and Big Bob claim something exists. I say prove it and you tell me to prove it myself. It's pretty hard to prove a negative in case you haven't noticed. I say that the alleged written agreements between Ashcroft and WTP and between Rossotti and WTP to attend the WTP hearings don't exist; you and Big Bob claim they do. Then let's see them. Bob has refused to post them. You claim he is honest - you claim the written agreements exist, but neither of you has or apparently can produce them. Amazing. People who read your web site do it for one of two reasons: (1) they believe any and all anti-government ranting and raving as well as any associated conspiracy theories and they'll believe and accept anything they can find that fits their anti-government bias or (2) they want to see what the domestic enemies of the United States are up to these days. I've disagreed with one thing on your web site - that these agreements exist - you claim they do. Prove it. It should be simple to do. Sounds to me like you're the one trying to deceive the American people. Could that be it? Probably. Watch-neither you nor Big Bob will produce the documents that you both say exist. So, from that, I can only assume that everything else both of you have to say is at least suspect. I've read most of your "editorials" - I must say you are one of the most unhappy and cynical people I've ever seen. Have a nice life in Never Never Land. |
My final response:
| Subject: Help yourself
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 From: devvy kidd <[email protected]> To: RMc <[email protected]>, [email protected] References: 1 Dear McDowell: Alas, I grow weary of someone who seems intent on angering the person they are asking for information. First, my reply to you was not non-responsive. Please contact Bob Schulz, that's his name, not Big Bob. His phone number is 518-656-3578. He is one of the most honest and honorable people I know. The agreement you seek may be on his site someplace, I'm not certain. But what I do know is that he does have it. Why don't you follow-up to obtain the information you want? Gee, what a novel idea! I know your type, Mr. McDowell and you won't do the homework. It's easier for you to screech in your anger and denial at those who have. Sheep do not follow me, Mr. McDowell. People who read my web site are doing so for a reason. Hopefully they will take the time to obtain all the government documents, treaties, etc., cited and do their homework. If you disagree with something on my site, perhaps you should be specific and provide documentation to dispute whatever it is you find so offensive. I do not play verbal tennis with e-mails, Mr. McDowell. I also mis-judged you. I thought you were someone who was just too angry with the truth and wanted to lash out at the messenger, me. However, I must conclude by the tone of your mail that you wouldn't believe the truth if God himself stood in front of you giving a blow by blow account of how badly the American people have been deceived. So go in peace and enjoy your false comfort zone and read the words of someone who was around when this nation was formed, although you may not recognize the name: "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, American Revolutionary Leader, 1776 I have sent Bob Schulz this mail. Perhaps he can get his technical guy to post the agreement and other documents Bob has so that rude people like you won't display your silliness to us in the future. Devvy Kidd |
Mr. McDowell is very wrong about a number of things. First, to my knowledge, Bob has never refused to post the written agreement.
Second, contrary to what Mr. McDowell claims, people do not read my web site to buy into every wacky conspiracy theory that comes along. As a matter of fact, I am on the outs with many in the 'patriot movement' because I have debunked a number of silly conspiracy theories on this web site.
There are valid questions about certain incidents and there certainly are conspiracies. Proving them is an all together different thing and it requires homework, effort and sometimes financial outlay. There are a lot of people in this so-called 'patriot movement' who are as lazy and Mr. McDowell and will believe anything without a shed of documentation to back it up. My credibility is very important to me, so I choose to do the research and homework.
Third, which leads me to believe Mr. McDowell is a government flunky, my personal belief as reflected on this web site is not anti-government, it is anti-corruption. I believe that all elected public servants should be held accountable. That includes the President of the United States. Elected officials are servants of the people, not the other way around and it's about damn time the people of this country get off their lazy, self-absorbed backsides and show the government that we are the boss and they work for US.
I believe that all elected public officials and those they appoint must live up to the oath of office they take and that is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I believe in what is right and wrong, not who is right or wrong. My blind loyalty is to God, flag and country, not some political party. As a matter of fact, at the end of the FOIAs below, I have re-printed an excellent letter that people should read and take to heart on this very issue.
I believe the people of this nation have the right to have access to documents concerning activities by elected public servants and their underlings, excepting sensitive bona fide national security issues. Mr. McDowell had better pay attention to what Mr. Ashcroft has been up to since 9-11, because what he's steering this country towards is a complete police state and mouths like Mr. McDowell won't be exempt from the hell coming to America.
A closed government is not what our Founding Fathers sacrificed everything for and I for one will not sit around and let it collapse in ruins. This is not anti-government, it is anti-corruption. It is making every effort to ensure our Republic survives the stupidity of its own citizenry.
Before our lazy e-mailer sent me his temper tantrum, I had already decided to file some Freedom of Information Act requests to see what I could find out as to why the aforementioned federal agencies reneged on their written promise to appear at the hearings. My delay in doing so was due to my travel schedule. I was gone from February 22nd through March 5th and March 12th through the 18th. I do try to juggle a home life in between the other things I do. But, I finally succeeded in getting them off in the mail.
As to the existence of the signed agreement, do people really think someone of Bob Schulz' integrity would go on Hannity & Colmes and make such a statement that would easily be proven as a lie? Oh, please.
In any event, as I said, DOJ apparently backed out first. With the help of the ethically bankrupt 'mainstream' media, duplicitous individuals like Ashcroft and Rossotti know that only a few hundred thousand people will find out what they did and how they lie. They play the numbers game.
But, there had to be a lot going on behind the scenes and this is what I will find out with my FOIAs, even if it requires suing them. I believe I know why they backed out, I want to see their work product. In this instance, I don't think any of these agencies would be so stupid as to deny my FOIAs on grounds of the great black hole, national security or privacy. They can try, but I am a very persistent person.
I feel it is imperative that the people of this country find out the real reasons why the government chickened out of the hearings. Yes, it's obvious to all of us why they did: because they have no legal leg to stand on regarding the income tax, withholding and the "Fed." We know it and they know it. Now we'll find out how it was finessed. Below are my FOIAs and I will update you when I receive responses from these various agencies.
Our e-mailer above is like so many people who bitch and gripe over the net, but will they take their precious time away from the dinner plate or ball game to do the research or homework? Will they spend $12 bucks for the certified mail charges to send FOIAs? No, they want someone else to do it for them and they'd rather spend the $12 bucks on some lottery scratch-offs at the mini-mart.
It's much easier for lazy people like Mr. McDowell to point the finger and call people liars, than it is for him to get off his lazy butt and do the homework. He has never contacted Bob Schulz directly and ask for the document. I didn't expect he would. Bravo, Mr. McDowell. You have clearly shown that you are certainly part of the problem in this country.
Mr. McDowell seems to think I am unhappy because he's read commentaries on my web site that don't bleed with the illusion being rammed down the people's throat by this corrupt government and it's puppet media.
On the contrary, I am not unhappy, I am mad and I've been mad for a long time. I'm sick to death of jerks like Mr. McDowell sending me accusations for something that isn't even on my web site. In the end, he's too damn lazy to contact Bob Schulz directly to obtain the document he's seeking. What a man! What a warrior!
I'm sick to death of party hacks who are so damn blind to the faults of their so-called 'party leadership,' they would rather watch this country slide down the razor blade of totalitarianism than admit the people they 'voted' for are the same scum over and over and over, they just repackage the old lies with new lies.
I'm sick to death of the Mr. McDowell's in this country who want everything handed to them on a silver platter, or perhaps he does work for one of the accused government agencies and can't stand the thought that he takes a paycheck from liars?
But, unhappy? No. I am very blessed. I have a beautiful daughter, a wonderful husband and two wonderful little doggies. My mom is still alive and doing pretty good at 75. I have four brothers and sisters who are all alive and in good health. I have many neices and nephews, all in good health. I live in a beautiful upscale home and want for no material possessions. Well, maybe I would like a nice fishing boat, but there's no time for fishing. America's house is crumbling and its everyone's responsibility to step up to the plate and save her. Fishing will have to wait.
I am fortunate to know class acts like Sherry Jackson, Joe Banister and too many others to list here. Yes, I am blessed. I also believe that God is in control. One day we will all know what he decides to do with this world.
In the meantime, I suggest the Mr. McDowell's of this country crawl back into their cocoon of cowardice, stupidity and laziness and let those of us who value freedom and liberty continue our fight and fight we will.
FOIAs:
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P.O. Box 60543 Sacramento, California 95860 Certified Mail Receipt: 7001 0320 0003 7999 5548 March 10, 2002 Re: Attorney General John Aschroft Melanie Ann Pustay, Deputy Director
Dear Ms. Pustay: This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) and the regulations thereunder. I am more than willing to pay any reasonable research and copies fees for responding to this request; however, if the costs thereof should exceed $100, please inform me in advance of producing the requested documents. I am not a commercial requester and I seek the documents requested below for personal reasons. Under the FOIA, I am requesting copies of all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Attorney General John Ashcroft and any of his staff in any capacity to Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Attorney General John Ashcroft and any of his staff in any capacity to Secretary of the Treasury, Paul H. O'Neill and Charles O. Rossotti, Commissioner of the IRS dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence receivedfrom Charles O. Rossotti, Commissioner of the IRS, Secretary of the Treasury, Paul H. O'Neill and Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant directed to Attorney General John Ashcroft and any of his staff dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. Very truly yours,
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P.O. Box 60543 Sacramento, California 95860 Certified Mail Receipt: 7001 0320 0003 7999 5579 March 10, 2002 Re: Secretary of the Treasury, Paul H. O'Neill Departmental Offices
Sir/Madame: This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) and the regulations thereunder, including those of the Treasury Department. I am more than willing to pay any reasonable research and copies fees for responding to this request; however, if the costs thereof should exceed $100, please inform me in advance of producing the requested documents. I am not a commercial requester and I seek the documents requested below for personal reasons. Under the FOIA, I am requesting copies of all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Secretary Paul H. O'Neill and any of his staff in any capacity to Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Secretary Paul H. O'Neill and any of his staff in any capacity to John Ashcroft, Attorney General of the United States and Charles O. Rossotti, Commissioner of the IRS dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence receivedfrom John Ashcroft, Attorney General of the United States, Charles O. Rossotti, Commissioner of the IRS and to Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant directed to Secretary Paul H. O'Neill and any of his staff dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation.. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. Very truly yours,
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P.O. Box 60543 Sacramento, California 95860 Certified Mail Receipt: 7001 0320 0003 7999 5586 March 10, 2002 Re: Charles O. Rossotti, Commissioner, IRS Departmental Offices, Disclosure Services
Sir/Madame: This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) and the regulations thereunder, including those of the Treasury Department. I am more than willing to pay any reasonable research and copies fees for responding to this request; however, if the costs thereof should exceed $100, please inform me in advance of producing the requested documents. I am not a commercial requester and I seek the documents requested below for personal reasons. Under the FOIA, I am requesting copies of all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Charles O. Rossotti and any of his staff in any capacity to Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Charles O. Rossotti and any of his staff in any capacity to John Ashcroft, Attorney General of the United States and Paul O'Neil, Secretary of the Treasury of the United States dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. This request includes all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence received from John Ashcroft, Attorney General of the United States and Paul O'Neil, Secretary of the Treasury of the United States directed to Charles O. Rossotti dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. Very truly yours,
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P.O. Box 60543 Sacramento, California 95860 Certified Mail Receipt: 7001 0320 0003 7999 5593 March 10, 2002 Re: Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant Melanie Ann Pustay, Deputy Director
Dear Ms. Pustay: This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) and the regulations thereunder. I am more than willing to pay any reasonable research and copies fees for responding to this request; however, if the costs thereof should exceed $100, please inform me in advance of producing the requested documents. I am not a commercial requester and I seek the documents requested below for personal reasons. Subject: Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant and Bob Schulz, Chairman of the We the People Foundation Under the FOIA I am requesting copies of all notes, which include hand-written material, memorandums, directives, correspondence, inter-agency memorandums, phone records and correspondence generated by Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, Daniel J. Bryant and to Mr. Byrant from any source, dealing with Bob Schulz and the We the People Foundation. This request covers the time period July 1, 2001, to and including March 1, 2002. Very truly yours,
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A Letter From The Founding Fathers
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/donfeder/df20010704.shtml
By Don Feder
July 4, 2001
From: The Founding Fathers
To: The current generation of Americans
On this the 225th anniversary of our independence, those of us you call the Founding Fathers have assembled in Continental heaven to assess the condition of the republic we bequeathed to you.
It's true America has become the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth. But so was the British Empire in 1776.
Before we get specific, we must confess that we are annoyed by your habit of misinterpreting our words. Take the First Amendment, where we said Congress shall make no law "respecting an establishment of religion." You usually neglect the other half of the injunction, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
As anyone in the first Congress, which passed the amendment, could have told you, "establishment of religion" means an established church, which all are forced to support. We never intended to create a virtue-less republic, by prohibiting public expressions of faith.
In the Declaration of Independence, we acknowledged that rights are endowed by our Creator. Absent a Creator, there are no inalienable rights.
In the Second Amendment, we said the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. In our day, if private citizens hadn't owned guns there would have been no Lexington and Concord.
Why would we bother guaranteeing a collective right to arm state militias? The rights enumerated in the first 10 amendments are restraints on government, not grants of power to it.
If you ever wake up to what's going on, your leaders will have cause to fear an armed citizenry. We viewed elective office as a sacrifice. For your politicians, it's an opportunity. We rid America of a monarchy. You've established an elected aristocracy. We were farmers, merchants and professionals who resumed our careers after a brief term of service and never lost touch with our constituents.
You are governed by an elite so different from you as to almost constitute a separate species. Your elected rulers hold office for 20 or 30 years, becoming increasingly detached from their roots, while rewarding themselves lavish emoluments and pensions.
We revolted over a modest tax on tea. Your tax burden is staggering. Despite the enormous expenditures of your prodigal politicians, even they can't spend it all. And still, many resist returning the federal surplus to its rightful owners. We rejected taxation without representation. You condone your own serfdom.
In the Declaration, we complained that King George III had "sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance." You complacently tolerate a bureaucracy that resembles all Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Eat out their substance? Today, almost one in 13 Americans works for a branch of government. Harass our people? There are bureaucrats to tell you how to run your business, build on your property and raise your children. Government makes decisions for you regarding your health, safety and welfare.
We envisioned the judiciary as a coequal branch of government that interprets laws based on the clear meaning of language. Your courts have become a law unto themselves -- raising taxes, deciding elections, ordering private relationships and substituting their will for that of legislators.
We warned you against entangling alliances. You are eager to form defensive pacts with postage-stamp countries whose security couldn't conceivably be related to your own. This will only serve to drag you into their petty quarrels, sapping your strength.
We recognized that government and society must rest on divine wisdom. George Washington observed, "Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent access to pornography, cohabitation, public distribution of prophylactics and compulsory acceptance of perversion will somehow lead to a society whose citizens have the self-discipline to sacrifice for the common good.
Benjamin Franklin said we gave you a republic "if you can keep it." From our vantage point, it does not look promising. Were we alive today, we'd raise another rebellion.
Don Feder archive
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/donfeder/archive.shtml
And if you think Mr. Feder isn't right on, I want you to read the piece below written by a lawyer. Then I want you to have a sleepless night wondering when the Nazi's from some federal government agency will make you their next victim. Think it can't or won't happen to you? It's no longer "if" things like you will read below happen, it's when.
For the belly-achers who read this site, maybe, just maybe, the true story below will assist you in getting your head out of rectal infinity. The federal government, it's agencies and all 50 state governments of the Union have declared war against the good, decent, law-abiding people of this country. And, those cretins who work for their agencies such as you'll read about from a mother and father, are flat out insane. Their insanity is backed up by corrupted courts presided over by mortal men and women who have declared themselves Gods in black robes.
Just read this heart-wrenching story below and for God's sake, quit belly-aching and stand up and fight for your fellow countrymen and women.
(CPS below means Child Protective Services. What a deception.)
http://www.sierratimes.com/02/03/22/steele.htm
It Takes A Village Idiot (to destroy a family)
by Edgar J. Steele
Meet Yinka and Vanessa Fasinro. They are a couple like any you might know. They live in North Carolina, often characterized as a bastion of conservative living. Take a few minutes and walk along with me in their shoes. The ones they are wearing right now - today. Learn how their lives are being vandalized at this very minute by our - that's as in yours and my - legal system. This is just another in a flood of CPS nightmare stories washing through American society.
The more I write in this area, the angrier I become. First, read their email of this morning, reproduced below, then the rest of this piece. You'll be mad as hell, too - I promise. But, it will be good for you - I promise that, too.
These parents' first mistake was in using a leftist (i.e., "it takes a village to raise a child") pediatrician who got them into "the system." this guy has done it to many others, I guarantee you. Many of those referrals to CPS (called DSS in North Carolina), too, were baseless and ended up in the parents' favor. That doctor does not share the department's immunity. A couple of lawsuits by parents will reign him in pretty quickly. I'm sure there is a local parents' rights group there; they should pursue this sort of thing independently by keeping lists of these doctors and checking them twice.
Those parents' rights groups should also cull out the true rogue CPS workers who appear in case after case of truly abusive conduct by the state and help to fund federal Title VII suits against both the departments and those rogue agents; their immunity doesn't stretch to that venue, you see.
The second mistake was in letting the first agent in the door without a search warrant. They should have made her stand on the porch, then brought the child to the window and shown it to her. Then they should have called their lawyer and gotten the name of a good CPS lawyer that would come to their house immediately.
I'm not sure how draconian North Carolina is, but it sounds about on a par with Colorado and Oregon. If so, then their third mistake was in not, that first night, packing the car and moving out of the state permanently. I'm not kidding about this. No, it is not an overreaction. It is simple self preservation.
It is easy to hire a moving company to come in and pack up all your remaining belongings and ship them to you. It is easy to have a real estate agent peddle your house. Jobs are easy to find. So are new friends. It is a literal stake driven into your heart to have your child taken away.
The fifth mistake was in not having a CPS-savvy lawyer present at the house for the next encounter.
They avoided the fourth mistake of not having another doctor immediately examine and report the child normal, though that seems to have been lost on the judge; doubt that it will be lost on an appellate court, however. If they ever get the kid back, ultimately it will likely be because they had the good sense to do this one thing.
Thus far, note how little involvement there really is by a lawyer, who is propped up simply as a scare tactic. Up to this point, this is how parents win their cases.....by making sure they don't become cases....and, it is the easiest and cheapest way, by far, to win these Attack-of-the-Snatch'n'Sell-Child-Nazi cases.
Now, however, the Fasinros are deep in the bowels of the system, with the only way out being to bow, scrape, say "Yassuh, mastuh," at every turn and jump through every impossible hoop set out by the system. To do otherwise is to tweak the nose of these impudent bureaucratic nazis, which causes them to mark you for termination of parental rights.
Oh, did I forget to mention selling everything you own to pay for the lawyers?
Silly me. I also forgot to mention that you might end up facing several years in prison on trumped-up charges of child neglect.
And guess who gets a bill for the state's involvement?
By the time people realize what's at stake, it is already too late.
Problem is, in these custody cases, the state holds all the cards... and they have stacked the deck... and they are dealing from the bottom. Not that they need to, with all those aces stashed up their sleeve.
The rules of evidence do not apply. You are forced to deal only with the documents and witnesses the state provides. You have no right to conduct any sort of investigation. You have no right to have your child independently examined, once they seize him or her. A judge sits in sole judgment, without a jury. The proceedings are conducted in secret, away from the public eye. You are literally guilty until proven innocent. Problem is, there is never any way to prove your innocence.
To think that so many talking media heads have made so much about Bush the Second's military tribunals for foreign nationals, when our legal system already treats some of our solidest citizens in far worse fashion!
Oh, and don't forget about the sizable bounties paid to state agencies for every child snatched and sold/adopted out - over $4,000 per child, with up to $50,000 available to the referring and examining medical "professionals" if they simply conclude that the child has been abused. This is one of the enduring legacies of the Clinton administration. Talk about a recipe for tyranny and injustice.
There are many lawyers on this list. I know that most of them are sitting there, right now, saying to themselves that this can't possibly be true, just as every parent who has not yet been tyrannized by the state is doing. They have no experience in this area, I guarantee you, because it is true and is even worse than just depicted. I was twenty years in legal practice before I handled my first snatch'n'sell case and that was exactly my response. And, I did a fair amount of family law, including trials, along the way. Now, I know better.
Used to be, these cases weren't all that common. The federal bounty structure, taken together with the transformation of our government into a genuine model of fascism, has changed all that. I get at least one email about another case like the Farinos at least once a day now. And, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
New America. An idea whose time has come.
| -----Original Message-----
From: y fasinro
I Just want to thank you for your support and prayers as we deal with DSS concerning our baby. Our baby was returned to us after four days in a foster care home. I wouldn't want any parent to experience the horror we've been through and are still going through. We took our child to the 2 week, 2 month,4 month, 6 month, and 9 month check up. At the 9 month check up, the Pediatrician said to us our baby (Shaday) must show weight gain in 1 month or else she will be forced to do some tests to find out why she is not gaining weight based on a graph she had. Which, by the way, is produced by baby formula companies. Our child is not bottle fed, but strictly breast fed at the time. Well, that scared us to the point that we decided not to return because the baby seemed normal, energetic, vibrant, etc...We didn't return for the 1 month return visit, or the 1 year check up. About 5 days after her 1 year birthday, we got a call from the DSS agent demanding she see Shaday. I came home from work feeling like it's one big dream, but it was really happening. I got home, my wife and myself answered all her questions which a dear friend had advised us to do. We remember one of the questions was why were the shades down, do we have food in the refrigerator, and where does the baby sleep? We tried to answer all their questions as accurate as we could. The agent proceeded to walk about the house looking around. She picked up the baby, and then told us that she will go back to her supervisor and report. If anything is to happen, she will let us know. Well, she called back for another visit. This time, she came with another lady that was supposed to be an expert in the field of child development. Before I got home from work, my wife had already let them in the house and they just interrogated my wife to the point of crying. They wanted to interview me separately but I refused without an attorney. During the course of the second visit, the expert lied about how Shaday was "slow to thrive" and that she doesn't have good reflexes because she had tried to have Shaday pull up from the carpet by offering shaday her index fingers to use to pull up to stand. But shaday would not. We both said that Shaday will not do it because they were strangers. They left and suggested that this investigation is serious and that we should get an attorney. We did. But for the mean time, we found a different doctor for shaday. We took her to him and he found that shaday was perfectly healthy. The original pediatrician dismissed his results. Our new doctor requested Shaday's medical files and invited us in his office the second time for a more thorough exam. He checked for any sign of bad reflexes, undernourishment, sickness, etc., but could not find anything wrong with her. I called another doctor in Oklahoma city, OK that is familiar with vegetarian diets and found nothing wrong with Shaday. Both doctors gave suggestions to help increase her weight which was the only concern they had, but based on their evaluation, Shaday was a healthy child and developing well. The agent called us several days later stating that the case was being transferred to "treatment" and they were giving us till end of December to show that Shaday has gained weight. If she doesn't gain or if she loses weight, further action will be taken to insure her safety. We had to sign and date this treatment program. We took steps to visit the doctor more times than we were asked to in order to make sure Shaday was really OK because it is more of our concern than DSS. We were "stuffing" Shaday to the point that we were afraid she would get sick due to the sudden change in her diet. We had no choice but to feed her like that. That was all the choice we had. For DSS to take our child because of "neglect" which we just couldn't believe was the reason was a total nightmare. My wife was 18 weeks pregnant, and they were asking how the unborn baby was doing, and how has her doctor visits were coming along. We were wondering if they were going to take the child when the baby is born. On 12/14/00, a DSS worker with her supervisor showed up demanding my scared and nervous wife open the door to let them in. I told her she was right not to let them in because we didn't have an attorney present. I called on the same day to let them know it wasn't because we were hiding, but because we didn't have a lawyer present. And that we went to another hospital for another check up to make sure all other results were right. The result came back that the child's blood was perfect. Again, very normal child. On 12/15/00 in the morning, I got a call from the DSS supervisor claiming we were not cooperating and that we need to make Shaday available. We said no again and that we needed an attorney present. My attorney was in court all day and I gave her his phone number to call which she did, but called back to claim the same thing that he was in court all day. She repeated her demand again, and I told her I couldn't allow her to see the child without an attorney. She claimed that I was not cooperating and that I leave her no other choice but to have the judge sign a petition to have me appear in court to have the judge force me to cooperate. At about 7:30pm, I heard car doors and to my surprise as I pulled the shades to look outside, I saw about 3-4 different police cars in my drive way all spread out. And 4 DSS workers in front of my house. They presented a signed petition from a judge to have the child removed at once. This was a far cry from having me appear in court to have me comply. Between cries, tears, sobs, pleads to keep this perfectly healthy child in a loving home of her parents, the child was forcibly removed that night. Shock, disbelief, sadness and anger lingered all night. With a terrified 15 month old baby, they drove to the hospital that night for a quick check up. Their result also confirmed a day earlier test which showed no problem. We contacted the commissioner office to report what took place and with swift action, the office began to be instrumental in the return of our child. When we got to the hearing four days after the baby was taken, DSS was willing to negotiate the return of our child the same day. I've heard nine times out of ten, a child is not returned at the first hearing. They gave us till anytime in December, so we set the doctors appointment for December 29th. But they didn't give us a chance. The baby did begin to show weight gain of 1 pound a week. We knew Shaday was healthy, but we just didn't want them taking her away that's why we began feeding her a lot of food. They violated the privacy Act of 1974 by discussing our situation to family members, friends and were investigating us through our neighbors. They were not to have been contacted by DSS. We return to court 1/22/01 to respond to all the false charges against us, but the judge granted more time to conclude the trial. We were very pleased with the way the trial went that day. There was only one witness for DSS on the witness stand that day which lasted 2 hours with no final decision from the judge. We have to return to court 5/15/01, to complete testimonies and hopefully to complete the trial. But for the mean time, as our child is with us, DSS has custody. DSS is able to mandate things like feeding our child formula, and can vaccinate the baby...things we don't approve as parents. They have tried to do several things already. Please pray that God give us favor in this situation and all charges dropped, and custody of Shaday returned to us as parents with no strings attached. As you know, to retain an attorney is very expensive. Pray also that we have our needs met financially also. The judge has dismissed 12 of 13 charges. We are waiting on the ruling of the false neglect charge. The final hearing was Oct. 9th 2001, and she was to rule 3-4 days later and now it's Jan 2002 with still no ruling. The judge wanted to hear several things pertaining to the charge, and we were able to satisfy the court with several evidences. We are finally done, but still waiting again for the ruling. We have just received the ruling from the judge which has taken 4 months. The ruling was against us. In spite of all the evidences, judge Harris ruled against us. We are planning to appeal the ruling. We will be headed to the court of appeals in Raleigh, NC. DSS scheduled a hearing 4/19/02 with the conviction to close the case. With the appeal, we are not sure they will keep the 4/19/02 hearing. All they wanted was to close the case with a conviction. We really thought 4/19/02 would be the day this nightmare will be over. We know now that this monster is still alive and well and is being fed by DSS. We are working on a media blitz right now so to keep the pressure on dss not to change the 4/19/02 date. Because on that date, they are to return legal custody back to us. Without any public pressure, they will cancel the hearing and retain legal custody of our child. I really hope you can help us. Thank you and God bless. Yinka Fasinro Vanessa Fasinro |
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